Cyndi Dale: Destiny and the Chakras

Tami Simon: This program is brought to you by SoundsTrue.com. For those seeking genuine transformation, SoundsTrue.com is your trusted partner on the spiritual journey, offering diverse, in-depth, and life-changing wisdom. Many voices, one journey. SoundsTrue.com.

You are listening to Insights at the Edge. Today I speak with Cyndi Dale. Cyndi is an internationally renowned intuitive healer, and she is the author of several books, including The Subtle Body: An Encyclopedia of Your Energetic Anatomy and Illuminating the Afterlife: Your Soul’s Journey Through the Worlds Beyond, as well as the Sounds True audio learning program Advanced Chakra Wisdom. I spoke with Cyndi about your destiny and the chakras.

Cyndi, welcome. I know you offer something called “destiny coaching,” and could you explain to us what that is? “Destiny coaching.”

Cyndi Dale: I would love to. You know, I believe—and I think most of us believe the same—that we are on this planet at this time to achieve a personal destiny or a spiritual mission. And all of our destinies, if we could join them together, will result in the kind of planet that we each want to live on and that we want to pass on to our children. My job when I am coaching or witnessing somebody’s process is to help that person figure out specifically what they are here to accomplish, what their gifts are, and how to get it going in their everyday lives.

And so I serve as a conduit for some of the spiritual messages that might come through to support somebody. You know, and a bit is a cheerleader, to say you can do it, let’s go. But ultimately each of us really has to accept our own worthiness and our own birthright to express who we really are and to offer it into the world.

Tami Simon: In working with so many different people over the years, I am curious what kinds of trends or patterns you’ve seen. What kind of people seem to just easily access their sense of purpose, and why do some people seem to have such a hard time with it?

Cyndi Dale: Well, this is kind of an ironic answer, I think. I think that people that are most open to grasping the idea and putting themselves forward have been through a lot already. I mean, the kind of people who have tried a little of everything, kind of come up against the wall or the glass ceiling (whatever the trendy word is these days), you know, so many times that we are forced to sit down, go inside, and say, you know, there has got to be more to life than this and I am willing to go for it.

So, again, paradoxically, it is the kind of person who is really willing to put themselves forth and make the best of themselves and improve the world at the same time—are those who have tried to kinda do it the world’s way and have figured out that it doesn’t really work that way. And so they are willing to take some risks and some chances, maybe even look foolish in the process. And open up to so much more. You know, you gotta be willing to look at the stars in the sky to think that you can go upward and don’t have to look just straight ahead and keep plodding along.

And over the years, Tami, I have seen some very interesting trends in terms of who those people are. Maybe twenty years ago we were what people call “the New Age.” Or the new spiritual people. Or the nonreligious. And these days almost all of my clients are mainstream people. They are the ones who are flocking out of corporations, whether it is that they are being pushed out of the nest or that they are really ready to fly. Or the people who have been homemakers or doctors or accountants or, you know, what have you. But the so-called normal people are now figuring out that they are really not that normal and that there is more to who they are than they’ve been able to act out in the so-called real world. And they are ready to open up and blossom.

Tami Simon: Well now, let’s talk to the person who might be listening and says, you know, yeah, this idea everybody has a destiny, everybody has a purpose, I like the idea. But I haven’t found that in my life. Is my purpose just to kind of be a nice person to other people or perform my job, whatever it is? I mean, I don’t have some sense of some greater purpose except to get the most out of life every day.

Cyndi Dale: Well, you know, years and years ago I was doing some studying in Peru with a shaman. And I asked the shaman who is a healer, “Why do you do what you do? Why do you help people? Why do you do healing work? Why do you act as a conduit for the divine?” And he said, “My purpose is really to do three things: it is to help girls achieve womanhood before they have children. It is to help fathers to stay with the children and raise them. And it is to help the children become who and what they are supposed to be.” And so I don’t want to knock the so-called average life. Our spirits are here, in the body and express themselves through the body. I really believe that everything physical is spiritual also. And so it is on purpose to pay our bills, raise our children, you know, kind of deal with our healthcare concerns, take care of our aging mothers or fathers or whatever it is that life presents all of us, that we might call tedious or a little boring at times or certainly stressful. That is part of our calling. And yet we are never going to change the average into something that is supernatural, that can be really super and bring forth the gifts that we have deep inside, if we don’t say, “You know what? The edges need to be blurred. When I am tending to my sick child, is there a higher calling even in that act? Is there something for me to learn? Is there something for me to teach my child? Is there a new way that I am supposed to stretch? Is there something I can do beyond taking that child to the doctor that has a healing endeavor? That helps me, the child, and maybe other people as well?”

And I believe everybody feels that yearning. Even if they feel super stuck, like kind of a plant in a pot in their everyday lives. I believe everybody yearns for and dreams about something a little bigger and a little bit more. And unfortunately sometimes we give up hope. I’ve been in situations in my life, in times of my life…I remember when I had three kids: two of my own, foster daughter, single mom, five animals. And I thought all I can really do is get through the day. And sometimes, some days, I would even believe that that was all I was supposed to be about, was just to be kind of this, I don’t know, dreg sort of a person who just kind of plods through, suffers through. But if I was even then really honest with myself, I would have said, you know, I am really made for more than this. I am made to do this in a good way, but I am more important than only pouring Honey Nut Cheerios in the morning.

So I really encourage people if they are in this hopeless state, like this is all I am, to say, what is under the hopelessness? Do you really want to stay hopeless? Do you really want to feel helpless? Or are you ready to go inside and start feeling, even through your frustration, the push and the pull to do and to be more than you’ve allowed yourself to settle for?

Tami Simon: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think you are right that people feel that. I am curious—I know that you know a lot about the chakras and have written several books on chakra healing and advanced chakra wisdom. How do the chakras relate to our sense of purpose and destiny?

Cyndi Dale: That is a great question. In my friendship circle I am considered “the chakra queen,” and I am not quite sure I want to take that title on. But I became infatuated with chakras years and years ago when I was able, you know, even as like a five year old, to perceive energies in and around people that were colored. I was a white, wonder bread, Lutheran, went to Sunday school. There was definitely no way I would have known that there are energy bodies that help regulate our life. And that is exactly what chakras are, which I’ve come to learn about and now I teach about.

They are energy centers or bodies that change really fast moving spiritual energy into slow physical energy and vice versa. And there are a number of them; each regulates a different life concern or set of concerns all the way from physical to metaphysical. And for me, the chakras kind of hold the keys to the mini-universe that each of us are. Because each chakra or each band of frequencies and concerns that a chakra manages or regulates is about real life.

So quite a few years ago I decided to really investigate chakras in terms of how working with them can apply to the normal person, which is really like I said not a normal person. These fantastic beings that we are. And help us be in our destiny, like our jobs, be in better relationships that we’ve been in, improve the ones we are in, attract new ones, parent well, make more money. You know, but also pursue greater dreams. And I’ve really devoted myself to looking at each individual chakra, but also to the system as a whole, to examine those issues.

The chakras, for instance, are each psychic centers. So if we can regulate our psychic abilities and transform them into kind of a higher form or knowing or an intuitive way of knowing, where we’ve got some filter systems. Gosh. I can set about my day and say, “you know, I would really like to open to the opportunities today that will help me in my life or help my child or help my spouse or improve my work performance or connect me better to the divine.” And it is gonna happen. Because I am working the chakra or the chakras that will help me do that.

Tami Simon: Can you explain a little more? What do you mean that it is a psychic center? The chakras are psychic centers?

Cyndi Dale: Well, each chakra is really just a band of vibration or frequency. So, one of the chakras, for instance, is connected into the hip or the groin area and very specifically to the adrenals. Each chakra is connected to a different endocrine gland. And you could picture that chakra as a circle, like a whirlpool of light, which a lot of practitioners do. Or I think even probably more accurately like a great big spotlight that goes in every direction around us. And penetrates into the world while linking in to our nervous system, our blood, our circulatory system, everything about us. And that chakra is constantly transforming or transmuting, like I said, this really fast moving energy that moves faster than the speed of light into slow energy. And so maybe out in China someone is thinking a thought that if I could pick up on it, it is going to help me in my life. Let’s say I am a stockbroker and I really need to know what is going on in China right now for making my stock picks. Well, through this particular chakra that is able to pick up on that, say the first chakra, which is about money, I can literally get a sense in my body, a sensation, a feeling, an inclination to go look at a press release or whatever that is going to help me make money doing what I do.

The chakra that regulates relationships is in the heart, which we could probably naturally assume. And it is, again, beaming everywhere. And so let’s say I am a single person who would love to meet my mate, and you know, most people want to meet somebody really important or special. You know, if I am really open in that energy center in a healthy way, I can just get this thought in my head: gosh, you know, I think I need to go sit at Starbucks and work tonight. I walk in the door there and there now is Mr. or Mrs. Wonderful. I love it when it works that easy. But the chakras are intuitive centers. They pick up on the kinds of information or events that we can’t touch, see, taste, or even flavor our thinking with, because they are so fast as data. They are moving so fast. It has got to be made known to us through our bodies, which is what the chakras do.

Tami Simon: Now you mentioned that for you the chakras were a huge key in opening up your understanding of how a person works. So if somebody has a frustration about their destiny and sense of purpose, how would they approach working with their chakras to be effective? I mean, you mentioned these examples, but I still…how does the listener go about making this real in their life.

Cyndi Dale: Well, and that is really what I love doing with people and even for myself. I work with the twelve chakra system. And in a number of my books with Sounds True, such as The Subtle Body, I talk about a twelve chakra system where each of these energy centers are located, what they run, what they regulate, what they are all about, and what the types of personality traits are that are kind of loaded into each chakra. So the first chakra is very physical, that is in the hip area. The second is in the abdomen; that regulates concerns that are about creativity, feelings. The third chakra is in the solar plexus and that runs thoughts, how we interact with people at work. It is going to regulate and affect our success at work, our structure of life, what we are able to manage or not manage in terms of data and details, etc.

So each of these centers really kind of runs a part of our life. And each of us has stronger versus weaker chakras. So let’s talk about destiny. Here is Cyndi Dale and I am supposed to be a writer. Okay? Do I really need a strong tenth chakra? Which is underneath the feet that has to do with nature? Well, probably not, unless I am going to be a nature writer. What I need is a strong energy center that regulates thoughts, thinking, educating people, reading, communicating, which is up in the throat. And so literally when I am born, my spirit carries this real unique mission that I am here to accomplish kind of comes into my little body and opens up or taps open certain of these chakras that have the gifts that I am going to need in life. I often work with people to go backward in the process. And to have them pay attention to what they are doing on a daily basis, what kind of person they are, what is their style, how do they interact with the world, what kind of person they are. And so if somebody is talking all day…they love to talk, they chatter, they gossip, they were the kid in school that passed notes all the time, or they love music, they love anything that has to do with communicating, that person is a strong fifth chakra person. They have a strong communicating energy center. That is a clue as to what their gifts are. We can backtrack it and figure out, you know, what their purpose is, but also what kind of style they have in everyday life. How are they going to accomplish their goals? You know, somebody who is on a diet who is a talker? The only way they are going to do an exercise program is to be able to talk five times a day with somebody and check in. The only way they are going to actually lose weight is to make sure they always have celery on hand, because they are certainly not going to stop their mouth from chatting, even if it involves eating, long enough to actually lose weight, you know if they are eating just a regular diet.

So I help people figure out their strongest versus their weakest charkas and then literally construct a way to act, to interact, with others, to set up their goals, and to achieve them based on their strongest traits, their strongest chakras. I kind of call it their signature chakras. If you know that you can figure out how to go about your life in a way that is really personal to you.

Tami Simon: Well, it is interesting. I could imagine one view would be to develop the areas of weakness. Not just go with your strengths. But if you develop your areas of weakness then you will become more whole. But you are sort of proposing something different, which is go with your strengths.

Cyndi Dale: I am. You know why? Because I have personal experience in this area, also. I am for instance not a strong third chakra person. Third chakra people are really organized. They could declutter…they can go in somebody’s house and declutter them within five minutes. This is the kind of person who makes a good accountant, a good homemaker—you know, they’ve got the five kids and they have to organize them and get them out to all the lessons that they need to get to. A good project manager, you know, anybody who is excellent at taking information, organizing it, and following a plan. I don’t have one cell of that gift. Absolutely nothing. I mean, if I file something, I will never ever find it again, I will never remember what I filed it under. You know, if I am filing something that says “computer technology” would I put it under the word “computer” or the word “technology” or things that I will never get to? And so I have shot myself trying to become a better organized person, and in the meantime I could have spent all those hours doing something I am really good at and I love doing.

So, you know, to a certain extent there are no excuses, for instance, not putting or not filing my taxes on time, which is a really great third chakra activity. But you know what? I actually hire three different people to help me get my taxes ready so that I can even file them on time. In the meantime, I can go off and do the things I am really good at and make the impact on the world and in my everyday life that I am here to make. So it is great to try to improve our weaknesses. If I can become a much better writer by concentrating on that versus a kind of a good filer by spending a lot of time on that, gosh, which is the choice I would rather make?

Tami Simon: Now you mentioned that from a young age, that you discovered that you had intuitive gifts, so I am curious when somebody comes to you for a destiny coaching session…do you see the situation in their chakras? Where they are strong? Where they are weak? Can you just see it and assess it while you are talking on the phone with somebody? Or do you instead take them from a whole self-assessment process?

Cyndi Dale: No. I just see them. I am very fortunate that way. Since I was a child I have been able to see energies, colors, sometimes visions of somebody’s past, metaphorical or literal, sometimes even glimpses into the future. So 80 or 90 percent of my work is actually on the phone. So when I am working with somebody, I literally just see colors in my head, sometimes other descriptor pictures, and I can say, gosh, you are a really organized person. Or, have you ever thought about writing?

I was just on the phone the other day with a client who told me absolutely nothing about herself. And I started to say, you are a storyteller. I can see all this blue energy around you, which is the communication color, and it had little sparkles in it, which tells me that they are really creative, and a lot of orange, which is a creative energy. And so from that little bit of data, and my own kind of kinesthetic senses of things, I can pretty much spin somebody’s personality. And I think a lot of us can do this. It is just that we are not all visual and see pictures in our head. Sometimes people are much more body-based or kinesthetic and might sit down next to somebody and kind of just get this feeling that the person that they are with is a real physical person, maybe they are real mechanical, and so they pick up on that information in a different way. I am just able to do it long distance and really visually.

Tami Simon: Now what if I want to do a self-assessment of my chakra situation? How do I do that?

Cyndi Dale: Well, I have some books out on that. If somebody is interested in doing it for health care sort of orientation, I have a book called Attracting Your Perfect Body Through the Chakras. If they are more interested in work and work success, I have yet another book on attracting prosperity through the chakras, which is really about figuring out your purpose. And somebody can do it by just getting a hold of any description of the chakras. They don’t even have to be my descriptions of the chakras, and kind of saying, gosh, which chakra do I think I work with most frequently? Which type of person do I therefore think I am? And you can really truly orient your decision making, you life activities, your behavior, your diet, your way of doing relationships, around the type of person that you are.

So I for instance have a very strong first chakra, which is the real physical one in the hip area. So I am just this kind of person: if I want to accomplish something I just start it. I tend not to really think about it first, which can be unfortunate sometimes, especially for other people. But I will just go about throwing myself into it, getting active, doing it, when I am stuck I go exercise. And actually when I am on the phone, one of the reasons I like working on the phone with clients is that I just walk around the house with the phone all the time. I think better when I am moving.

My ten year old is very much the same way, which is not a very scholastic approach to life. So when we are memorizing his spelling words, I have him bounce a basketball while we are doing it. I have him bounce a basketball, repeat every single letter, and then consistently just kind of do something active until he can repeat the spelling word. You know, it is not going to work if he is a meditative sort of a kid, who would have to sit there and chant a mantra and go, oh, I can spell this word as long as I am in touch with the divine. That is just not the kind of kid he is. And so it is really beneficial, really beneficial, for people to know what their strong suits are chakra wise and to work with those.

Tami Simon: Just a little bit more about this idea of going with our strengths. I mean I understand professionally and even when it comes to learning why you would work with your strong suit. But in terms of emotional wholeness, doesn’t it make sense to try to develop the chakras in which we have a weakness because there is some reason that we are weak there, some way that we are blocking something, resisting something, and to just sort of work around that don’t you become kind of like a human obstacle course? You’ve avoided some part of your own development?

Cyndi Dale: That is a good point. There are probably two basic reasons that a chakra is going to be weak. One is what I pointed out, which is it is really simply not as necessary a gift center for what we are here to accomplish. And secondly sometimes a chakra is really defunct or underdeveloped, exactly like you said, because we blocked it or some situation in our life has been so traumatic we just have absolutely shut down.

So, for instance, the second chakra, which is the emotional one in the abdomen area. Frequently people who are abused as children, sexually abused, physically abused as an adult or go through a very traumatic time, you know, those high-stress times where you go through a divorce, you lose your job, your child is sick, you are sick, or whatever, especially all at the same time, an energy centers sometimes deal with it by just shutting down or we deal with it by just saying, you know, I need to be in shock. I just need to get through this. If we are a fairly healthy person, that shut down energy center opens up over time anyway. But if there is some kind of unconscious belief that we are safer or better off keeping it closed down, it might unnecessarily shut down and then it really isn’t available to us.

I am picking at the second chakra because that is the one I often see people shut down, especially in America. We tend to be really about action and activity and thinking, but not so much about feeling and expressing. And so frequently that is the energy center that people learn to shut down or their family systems have shut down. And so, no, we are not going to be developed human beings. We are going to be stunted if we are not able to access and really flow through and live through every part of our being.

Some people will never be great at being creative. I mean , I can’t draw a stick figure. I absolutely not matter what I do, and I’ve taken art lessons, can’t yield a pen, a pencil, a crayon even, to make anything make sense on paper, which is one of the second chakra strengths in terms of creativity. Nonetheless, I do want that energy center healthy, so that I can respond to creativity, so I can be creative in my own way, and so that I can process emotionally. And so we need to be everything that we are. And we are still going to have deficits that we are just going to have to learn to live with. And they are okay to have.

Tami Simon: Okay. Now, in your work, and you’ve mentioned this, you talk about twelve chakras. And you know, most people, I think, when they talk about the chakra system identify the seven that are located in the body. And you’ve mentioned those. Can you go though with us what eight, nine, ten, eleven, and twelve are in your system? And also how you discovered this twelve chakra system.

Cyndi Dale: Oh sure. Absolutely. Well, Westerners typically do think that there is just seven and they are all located in or emanate from the body. And you know, that to me is kind of a western way of thinking. Because if it is not physical it is not real. And you know, back in the 1920s when certain movements in America and across Europe kind of even opened up to the whole idea of chakras, which are more of an eastern and an eastern Indian concept than kind of European. You know, they went by what seemed like what made the most sense which was to pick those that were emanating from the body.

Now, twenty, twenty-five years ago, when I really started just on a path of self-discovery, to try to figure out what these colors were, I was puzzled because I actually kept seeing more chakras than I was learning about. So I was saying, well, what is this one? What is this one? And you know, a few of my teachers would say, well, I don’t see anything. But you know, a few would say, hmmm, let’s psychically take a look at that. Yeah. You are right. There is something underneath the feet. And so I just started evolving toward my own understanding of these out of the body five, and working with them, and I have found them very beneficial to work with myself or for other people.

And then I’ve been doing a lot more scholastic studies also about these unusual chakras over the past twenty-some years. And you know, it just all depends on who you study. There is one East Indian master from a few hundred years ago who says that there are four chakras. There’s another who says there is nine. There is another who tells of eleven, and another who says there are fifteen. There is another system where there are nine. So I have kind of figured out…people just have to figure out what works for them in the end. But I do believe that there are twelve, if not forty-two. And I just don’t really want to know about the others because it would be a really thick book. And I love working with the top five because they bring me into really much more of the power and influence of the spirit and things spiritual.

So eight is like a little point right above the head, about an inch and a half above the head, and if I look at it psychically and as most people do, they see it kind of like a little black ink dot. But if you travel up in it, it becomes this real vast realm. That is the home of what mystics often call the Akashic Records, which is the recording of everything we’ve ever done or thought, kind of our soul’s journey through life and other lifetimes, about past and future. And you know, kind of a recording of all the systems that we’ve ever touched. And it is a place that I go to actually journey to other realms and places and planets and dimensions and time periods and that is often how shamans work. So I call it the shamanic portal.

Right above that, really kind of about an arm’s length above the head is the ninth chakra, which is gold. And this actually carries what I like to describe as our soul genetics. So we have physical genes and we have soul genes. And soul genes can often be read as numbers, symbols, shapes, the kind of stuff that when it is downloaded into our body actually opens us up and even impacts our physical genes. So this is an energy center that connects into other people’s souls as well.

Tami Simon: So let’s just pause there for one second, because I am very curious about this idea of soul genetics. Do you mean that from lifetime to lifetime we have our sort of soul DNA? Is that what you are talking about?

Cyndi Dale: Yes, I absolutely do mean that. That our soul carries a soul purpose and goes through many lifetimes in order to express it and also learn about it and just plain learn and gather teachings period…actually does have its own unique set of genetics, or kind of like energetic genetics. And those are often encoded actually into our body and even into our genes. You know, in order maybe to help us select a certain body type. You know, a football player is really not going to make it if he is 4′ 8″. He is going to have to have a certain body build. And so those soul genes, you know, are gonna help him program the physical genes so that we can accomplish the goals that we are here to achieve during a certain lifetime or overall—throughout all the lifetimes that we ever go through.

And you know, so sometimes even intuitively I know a lot of what my soul genes are. I mean, it sounds kinda goofy, but I get a lot of signs from the real world. Like, for instance, a seven is one of the so-called numbers that means something to me. So I have one day that I said, you know, I really need to know if I am on track about x, y, z. Everywhere I went I saw sevens. I was behind four cars just on my way to take my child to school that had nothing but sevens on them. Seven, seven, seven, seven. And so I got my answer from the so-called concrete world, but it was really speaking to and through my soul.

So yeah, we’ve actually got programs that I think our soul does carry through. Just like we have lesson plans that for better or worse we are constantly trying to work on in these different lifetimes.

Tami Simon: Okay, that is the ninth chakra, very interesting.

Cyndi Dale: Yes it is. It is very fun to work with that one.

The tenth…we reverse down and go underneath the feet about a foot and a half, and this is our connection into nature. This is the naturalist energy center. This is the one that actually does before birth and through the conception process load or frontload our genes. And it is through this that our soul kinda goes back in time along our genetic and genealogical inheritance and selects the genes that are going to really enable us to be who we are supposed to be or learn the lessons we need to learn. Sometimes genetic abnormalities are on purpose because they are mirroring a lesson that we have to finish or they are bringing up an issue that we have to face. I’ve actually had somebody who had a hip disorder their entire life; it healed because we went back down through the tenth chakra to an experience that one of his ancestors—I don’t know how many generations ago—had gone through that caused that ancestor’s hips to be misaligned. It was passed all the way through. And my client’s hips completely cleared up just facing what came in from the past.

So the tenth chakra is our rooting system into our own genealogical ancestry. Really kind of as well into the earth, which is in a way our mother and father on a real physical level while we are on this planet. People with a really strong tenth chakra, they are very nature based. These are the kind of people who receive their signs and enjoy everything in and from the natural system and the natural processes. That is the tenth chakra.

Tami Simon: It is interesting to me that our physical genetic system would originate from underneath us versus from on top of us.

Cyndi Dale: Isn’t it? But I think it makes sense. Because our bodies are actually constructed of elements. You know, fire, water, earth, depending on which elemental system you work with. There are up to ten different elements. And so we are composed of the earth herself. We are composed of that which makes up nature. And so where is nature? Certainly it is around us and on top of us, but we gestate from below. Those are the concrete matters that create physical matters.

Tami Simon: Okay, makes sense to me.

Cyndi Dale: Eleventh chakra? Now we are around the body. It is like a pink film that surrounds us. And it is most heaviest and condensed in and around our feet and our hands. And this is a really interesting energy center to work with. I see it as the center of commanding. And I think that we can access it to command and even generate forces both natural and supernatural. So what do I mean by natural forces? Well, wind, the seas. When we read in the bible for instance about Jesus calming the waters, it is the tenth chakra through which he did that.

Tami Simon: You mean the eleventh?

Cyndi Dale: Excuse me. Yes. Thank you. It was the eleventh.

Years ago I was starting to work with this energy center and I was conducting my own kind of private educational tour to meet different shamans down in Mexico and I was driving from city to city or village to village to try to really figure out the kind of shamans that lived in that country. And I heard that there was a professor in this one particular town who was studying shamanism as well. So I drove into the village and she was right there in the center, I could tell it was her. She was a white person and she had this huge mark across her cheek, like a burn mark, and I went up to her and I said, you know, “Gosh, I am Cyndi Dale, etc., what happened? You look like you were struck by lightening.” And she said, ” I was.” She said that there are two weather shamans in this area and she was only going to talk about one of them in this book and the other one found out and commanded the lightening to strike her. Boom. Two days later she was struck by lightening.

It is the eleventh chakra through which we are able to command those kinds of natural forces. But I also believe supernatural forces. So these real leaders…even Hitler, was a spiritual leader in his own way. He was manipulative and twisted and for real drew on a demon to get his campaign information. He was able to move energies in such a way that he could force people to do what he wanted them to do. And so the eleventh chakra is the vehicle…

Tami Simon: What do you mean for real that he drew on a demon?

Cyndi Dale: It is real. There is a lot of research that shows that he and a demon that he worked with, and he actually so-called met it during WWI. He was in the trenches with a number of other soldiers and he heard a voice in his head who he later called Providence. He left the trench and it was shot at a few moments later. Everybody else in the trench was killed and he survived. And he consulted his journals—it is clear—he consulted Providence for his strategies.

Tami Simon: And Providence…what do you mean by a demon?

Cyndi Dale: That’s the name of the demon. That is what he called it. He called it is daemon.

Tami Simon: Oh, daemon. Yeah.

Cyndi Dale: But since then most people have come to believe it was truly some sort of entity or a demon. So for him it was his guiding force.

Tami Simon: Okay, so just going back for a moment to the eleventh chakra? You know, in terms of that being located in hands, I understand the idea of command and the power in the center of the hands. How does commanding energy relate to the bottom of the feet?

Cyndi Dale: Oh I am glad you asked that. Well, we talked a little bit about that tenth chakra and that that is down underneath our feet in the ground and it is our kind of vessel for connecting in with nature, nature’s elements and natural forces. And so when we are commanding the lower frequency elements or natural forces, it is really our feet that is drawing them up into our body or around our body and producing the effect.

Tami Simon: Okay, cool. And now the twelfth chakra?

Cyndi Dale: The twelfth. I absolutely love working with the twelfth chakra. It is all the way around the body. It is clear. I call this the layer of mastery. And I only see it as clear because I think it is very individual to each person. If I were to for instance journey into my twelfth chakra, that is where I am going to really sense my own individuality, my own true personality, perhaps you could even say my own essence or real spiritual self. My gifts, my purpose, who I am. And it is critical that this energy center is around the body because right outside of it is a different energy structure called the energy egg that has several layers to it. And the outside of that layer goes all the way through the spiritual dimensions into the planes that I don’t even know if we can even grasp the idea of while we are just human beings.

And so this is the outer realm of who were are and it connects in to all these other worlds and planets and planes that we can access and bring straight through the twelfth chakra into our actual individualized physical self. But it is very unique to each of us. And so often when I am doing healing work with people, I like to work out here, in this part of the field, because I am then able to help that person access his or her own unique perspectives or healing energy or access to the universe and bring in energy that has never been here before.

Just the other day I was working with a gentleman with an auto-immune disease and the top half of his body breaks out in these welts and he has to get steroid shots and he has had for years and years. We actually worked through this energy center and 50 percent reduction in the break outs in his body while we were working. I wasn’t doing anything. I was just having him open up to the energy he needed to help balance his system. He did it through this energy center and saw an immediate effect. Now I wish I could guarantee that all the time. But you know, it is kind of fun to look at those wow sort of cases just to demonstrate what is possible through some of these different energy centers.

Tami Simon: It is really interesting hearing about all twelve chakras, so thank you, Cyndi, for explaining that. When we are talking in this conversation about how our individual destiny is encoded in our chakras, I am curious how you see an individual’s destiny progressing from lifetime to lifetime. I mean, what is your sense of the purpose of each individual lifetime building on the last lifetime and then moving forward? What is your view of that?

Cyndi Dale: Well, I am going to give you two answers. One is optimistic. One is pessimistic.

Tami Simon: Wonderful. I love that.

Cyndi Dale: Optimistically I think the plan was to evolve. I think the plan was here I am I have got this purpose. I am here to create more hope or to be a healer. And in every lifetime I want to be able to execute that purpose and to help people and to learn a little bit more about love as I progressively better my skills and understand myself and the nature of the divine better. So, you know, the idea of these consecutive lifetimes is basically to improve ourselves, to learn more, and I believe to even create more love. I mean love isn’t anything that is static. We need to keep creating it, bettering it, furthering it, and we need to do that with who we are and ourselves.

So we are supposed to go through…and kind of like it is that whole idea that you just get better with age. I don’t know if that is really true either. But that is the idea. And so if we kinda screw up in one lifetime, hey, it is fine, there is another lifetime. We can come back in. Make amends to that person that we hurt. Or, gosh, you know, if in one lifetime I quit a little early, well I can come into the next one and make sure I complete a task that had been kind of incomplete or I had taken a pass on earlier.

So this whole idea of growth and progress is really the basis of consecutive lifetimes and interactions. Unfortunately I think what has happened for most of us in most cases is that we make a mistake in a lifetime and instead of saying, gosh, it is okay, I can fix this. I can make amends to that person. I can just do a little bit different in the next lifetime and it is all going to be okay. You know, instead I think we self-inflict. We blame ourselves. We maybe even start shaming other people, like I could have made it if they hadn’t screwed me up. And we choose a situation in the next lifetime that is not only challenging but even more challenging than what we already went through. And so we are almost dooming ourselves to fail. And each time we fail we again, unfortunately, set ourselves up for an even harder lesson plan. And we make it harder on ourselves.

So I have found that over time most people just keep repeating in a way the same lifetime over and over and over, instead of picking slightly more living situations or any easier path through the lesson, they actually pick harder ones lifetime after lifetime. And so we are at this point, I think, where the world is such a mess because our individual souls are so exhausted and full of so much self-hatred and dysfunctional patterns…that I think most of us deep inside are going kind of like, gosh, life is really hard. Why even try? Okay, well I will just kind of muddle through. But I don’t think that I could even execute the simplest of tasks, much less deliver my destiny. And so I think that basically the soul just keeps speeding up on itself and it makes it harder instead of easier.

So a lot of what I do when I work with people, especially in a past life capacity, is just say, you know, it is really important to forgive yourself and then to start making changes now that involve more self-love, self-forgiveness, grace, gratefulness for the lesson. But it is okay to choose easier and more loving and just plain lighter rather than heavier and so dismaying.

Tami Simon: Now interesting. Most people who describe a multiple lifetime model will present the optimistic view, that it is designed for human evolution, we are in some kind school, we are progressing. And I guess what I hear you saying is that it is a more neutral situation than that. It is kind of what you make of it?

Cyndi Dale: I think it is totally what you make of it. Absoutely. And I think that a lot of times people feel more like they are a failure because they are still working on the same lesson they were working on ten or forty-eight lifetimes ago. And that is when I like to say, you know what? That is okay. Let’s just stop. What do you think the teaching is? Grab the teaching. Now let’s move forward. Let’s design things differently.

Tami Simon: You wrote a book that Sounds True published called Illuminating the Afterlife, and I am curious how that fits in to this discussion about at the end of a certain lifetime, before the next incarnation, what you’ve discovered in brief here about the afterlife.

Cyndi Dale: Well, I think we live an entire lifetime in between lifetimes. So there is a convoluted statement for you. But there really is a journey beyond this lifetime, and there are people who have recorded their near death experiences, you know, those who have died and have come back to life, and those who are very spiritual and talk to the dead or communicate with the dead. All insist that there is a beyond, but it is not static. There is not just one thing that happens to people when they die. They don’t just go into purgatory and wait there until judgment day. That there are many paths. That there are many choices available to us when we are dying and after death and even long after we are dead. And so my book Illuminating the Afterlife is about those different kinds of choices and I frame it up as different planes, planes of light or levels of existence, that we get to visit, that we get to travel on, that we get to learn on. There are beings. There are helpers. There is lesson plans on each of these planes that prepare us to either come back into this kind of an incarnation or go someplace totally different.

And so it is kind of like a school on the other side, much more probably evolved often than the school that we have here on this planet. But I think everything that is so called over there is available to us right here as well. So my book is really begging the question, why wait until your dead to open up to the different sorts of truths and the wisdom and even the healing energies that are available to us then? If we can open up to it now, wow. I mean, you know, the people who have so-called returned from the dead, the NDErs as they are called, I have met many, many people who have had near death experiences. And they are some of the most awesome individuals you could ever hope to meet in terms of their ability to be intuitive, loving, open, altruistic, kind, you know. So what is it about what is over there that we can bring here and help change ourselves and the world as well.

Tami Simon: You know, Cyndi, I am enjoying talking to you so much. I could talk to you for a really long time, so I hope we can do this again.

Cyndi Dale: I would love to.

Tami Simon: As just a concluding question: our program is called Insights at the Edge and one of the things I am curious about is what the edge is for you in your own personal discovery, your own life, at this point in time. What are you working with?

Cyndi Dale: An absolutely brilliant question. Here is my edge: I like to challenge myself to go as far out as possible in terms of using my gifts in a way that is going to help people. I truly want to bring through, and I mean that kind of on the spiritual sort of level, I absolutely want to bring through the most accessible way for people to do healing work. I mean that is really what my goal is. I had a vision a few years ago of a book that was written, I don’t know, fifty years out in which I am quoted, and it is written by actually medical doctors fifty years out in which they were able to take some of the ideas that I brought forth and use them in allopathic medicine or the integrative medicine of the future to literally help people heal from cancer and some of these mega-diseases that I just don’t believe we really need to have. So that is my edge. And so I just keep going out to that edge and every time I am there and think I have a little something, there is another sight, another journey sight, for me to reach to.

Tami Simon: Well, very good. There is a lot to talk about there. And we will do that again.

Cyndi Dale: Thank you. I would love to.

Tami Simon: Okay. Thanks , Cyndi.

Cyndi Dale: Thanks, Tami.