Conscious Weddings

Tami Simon: You’re listening to Insights at the Edge. Today, my guests are David and Lila Sophia Tresemer. David has a doctorate in psychology and is associate professor of psychology at Rudolf Steiner College. Lila Sophia Tresemer is a group facilitator, author, photographer, ceremonialist, and trans-denominational minister.

Together with Sounds True, David and Lila have written a new book, The Conscious Wedding Handbook: How to Create Authentic Ceremonies That Express Your Love. In this new handbook, David and Lila support couples who are beginning their adventure together or deepening an existing relationship, empowering readers with practical exercises for sustaining conscious partnership.

In this episode of Insights at the Edge, David, Lila, and I spoke about the most important building blocks of a conscious wedding ceremony. We also talked about the importance of a couple reflecting on their purpose for being in relationship and how, for David and Lila, that purpose is not primarily about being “happy ever after.” We also talked about the role of the witness in a conscious wedding, and what we can each do when we’re participants to be a source of blessing power. Finally, we talked about how conscious weddings can be portals to conscious relationships. Here’s my conversation with David and Lila Sophia Tresemer:

In your new book, The Conscious Wedding Handbook, you start the book off by talking about how so many weddings are filled with all of the right accoutrements, if you will—the dress, the tux, the right flowers, the right food—but that the ingredient that can sometimes be missing is a sense of meaning. So, I want to begin our conversation by hearing from each of you: what do you think the most important ingredients are to make a wedding ceremony meaningful?

Lila Sophia Tresemer: The first thing that comes to my mind is the clear intention and the agreement that that matters to the couple—that they are really willing to understand that the opportunity available to them in a ceremony where perhaps they’re being witnessed by some people or many people. That opportunity means that they can actually create a—call it a “ceremonial moment,” which is defined by them [and] what that means to them as their own spiritual tradition or belief systems.

But, it’s an opportunity. To miss that opportunity and just go for the—let’s say—the theater of a wedding—which is an important part. We love the theater of it. Everybody loves the theater of the wedding. But to actually be able to deepen it into a sense of meaning has to be something that they recognize as important.

David Tresemer: I feel that you must ask the question, “Why would family members, friends, or college roommates travel a thousand miles to attend a ceremony that’s 15 minutes long? Is it really about another opportunity to have a party?” You can do that lots of places.

But, what you can’t do lots of places is witness something profound exchanged in that moment between two people. That’s what people remember.

You have an opportunity in a wedding to have witnesses who will see something so profound, and it can last one second. We call it “the sacred moment.” It can last one second—when everyone in the room knows, “Oh, they really do love each other.” Then you have witnesses who are onboard with that memory for the rest of your life.

TS: You both mention this ceremonial moment [or] sacred moment, and you talk about it in The Conscious Wedding Handbook—that often there can be this moment that happens in the wedding ceremony that often isn’t even planned. So, tell me more about it—that moment—and why you both really shine a light on that.

LST: Yes, I think most anyone listening would be able to recall a wedding that they attended where there was that moment. Sometimes, it shows up as laughter at the unpredictable rascality that might appear. Sometimes, it’s really deep and heartfelt and the room feels heart-opened and perhaps tears in response.

So, those are the two ends of the spectrum. I’m a big fan of laughter as well, and consider that that also can be something remarkable.

One of the ways that we attempt to assist a moment—or several moments; it’s not only just one—is by—after the vows and everything that’s scripted has been shared—to really ask them to deepen into a silence, close their eyes, and just check in. Is there anything in this moment that’s fully alive for you that you want to share with your partner?

Many times, that’s just enough of reaching deeper into authenticity that what bubbles up is spontaneous and often delightful, [and] really unexpected. That intimate moment then sparks and people feel it because it comes from really a whole different place than the script.

DT: People come with their vows. They work with their vows. When we do weddings, we work with people for three sessions minimum and really work with them to create vows that are not too long, that are succinct—that’s I guess the same sort of thing—and that really are potent for both of them.

But, some people still insist. They say, “Well, I’ve got to do these words and these words.” They want to bring three-by-five cards.

Yes, it’s OK for these words to be read aloud, but it isn’t what Lila was just talking about. [It’s] what is rising spontaneously in that moment. We try to pull it out of them.

And I should say a sacred moment can occur—let’s say the bride has a really great dress. It’s all over the floor, and she trips on it. The groom, without thinking—just a hand reaches out, the whole body goes forward, and rescues her. Everybody knows right then: that’s what they witness.

So, mistakes can also be quite wonderful in a wedding—and how they’re worked with. Rather than saying, “Oops, we made a mistake,” it’s how you deal with it. That’s the point.

TS: Now, it’s really interesting that our conversation has gone to this idea so quickly of “the sacred moment,” because—as I was reading The Conscious Wedding Handbook—I was thinking back to the weddings I’ve attended. I could remember moments like that.

Here’s my question: In the audience, when something happened and it was almost like the worlds were opening up—I’m not quite sure how else to say it—but it was like the invisible world was somehow participating in the ceremony at that point. I’m curious what you both would say about that.

DT: Yes. Soul to soul. Soul arises—something that is deep [and] that everybody knows is there. Some scientists say it doesn’t exist, but everybody knows it [does] kind of in a folk sort of way.

But, the soul arises. When soul wants to speak in the ceremony—especially in ceremony is when soul is active. We can ignore soul in lots of places—most places—in our lives. We have structures of society to kind of keep it down.

But, there you have this opportunity for it to burst forth. We feel that a wedding structure should have these little spaces created so that soul can arise in a way that the witnesses can receive and then magnify.

There’s a study that they did about weddings. They said they actually saw that the divorce rate was much lower in larger weddings. I think that’s part of it, because you have that many people magnifying what they’ve observed and then beaming it into the whole room.

LST: Then there’s something to—I think—back to the first comment about intention. Rather than kind of showing up and getting through a formality, it’s about coaching these two people into an exercise of intimacy so that that can be more relaxed in the context of the actual theatrics of the wedding itself. We actually really love working with couples to both engage them in some of the processes in the book, but also to witness how they work together, because there is an exchange that starts to happen when you go down the tunnel of, “OK, I’ve set the date for a year in advance.”

We encourage them to do a lot of the logistics up front so that as it gets closer, they really can go into that soulful territory together and take the opportunity to speak to some of the co-creation of their shared lives and their vision and, really, the things that matter. I’ve actually met people who got married and hadn’t ever talked about whether they wanted children or not. That’s like at one end of the extreme, but I think there’s very many opportunities that get missed for helping a couple really craft the vessel that’s going to carry them into the future.

We feel—because we love mythic and we love the sense of a ceremonial reality—that there is a way to capture the essence of your life together in the way that you create your wedding. There’s a little seed kernel there of what can then be present over the unfolding years of a couple’s walking together.

DT: Can I say something more about that?

TS: Please!

DT: We use a model called “one-two-One.” One and then two and then the big One—capital O-N-E. That really helps to understand what the role of relationships and long-term marriages—long-term relationships—the wedding being like a real boost to a relationship, in our view.

So the first “one” is the sovereign individual. So, I stand alone and I am taking care of myself. I am growing and maturing, and I’m strong in myself.

And then the “two,” I come into relationship as a strong individual. It all changes there. The possibilities are much greater, and that other person is the best trainer for me to mature even further because they will reflect back to me all the stuff that I really haven’t noticed in myself.

Through that gate, we come to the large One—the kind of feeling of the unity of creation. You go down that path when you’re dealing with sex. You also go down that path when you’re dealing with something with sensuality or intimacy. We actually feel those are all necessary to really find true love—where you experience a oneness and unity of all of creation.

It’s not a one-way street. You’re meant to go there and then come back, go there and come back. [You] kind of cycle between those three states of separated individual, couple—two-ness—and the big One. In a successful wedding, we all rise together in that room to that large One and you can feel it present.

Now, this isn’t true at all weddings. In fact, I think it’s sort of an exception because there are some weddings that just kind of go through the motions and get right on to the drinking.

But, it’s possible there. That’s the opportunity.

TS: Now, one thing I’m curious about is the role of the witness in terms of what participants—what witnesses—at the wedding could do to help magnify—as you said—a couple’s ceremonial intent. What can I do when I go to weddings to be a good, conscious participant?

LST: That is a really, really good question and one that I know—whenever I have officiated a wedding—I actually make it a point to—before the ceremony begins [and] before the bridal party even arrives—to invite people to get very present to the fact that they are a witness and that they can participate by supporting what they see and hear and know about the couple. Each individual in the room can bring through them what’s sacred or meaningful to them so that they’re not just there sitting and watching—but that they energetically are—I think of it as blessing. There’s an energy of their own connection to the divine or what’s meaningful to them that can pour through them—that they can just use an active imagination to sort of pour energy and blessing on that couple to support them in their vows.

The opposite extreme would be somebody sitting there, arms crossed, being critical because perhaps the ceremony isn’t in their own belief system or tradition, and they feel resistant. Those are the people that I like to try to disarm. They’re often family members who are sort of wanting their relative to support the religious tradition of the family. It’s really important to just invite them to put down that criticism and get very, very present for the blessing of this couple who everyone’s taken the time out to support.

DT: I think also some people are arms crossed and some people have their mobile phones going—photographing it either with stills or movies. We actually think that takes people away from what Lila’s speaking about—especially in what we call “the core of the wedding” [or] “core of the ceremony,” where we really recommend—if you have a professional photographer, fine. That’s OK. But everybody else, just put away your phones.

What’s more important than having a visual record of the movements of the bodies in the room is to be present and not to be operating technology—but to be truly and fully as present as possible. That’s when we get into this realm of the visitation of soul and the One.

LST: In fact, with sacred attention, you’re really realizing that what you focus on with sacred attention does matter.

TS: Now, you gave the example, Lila, of a couple on one far end of the spectrum that hadn’t even discussed whether or not they wanted to have children, which would be a—

LST: Shocker.

TS: Yes. It would be a shocker.

DT: Not uncommon! [Laughs.] We love each other! We just want to get married! All that other stuff will take care of itself. Go ahead.

TS: And you offer in The Conscious Wedding Handbook, 82 questions that a couple can ask. I thought, “That’s the other extreme if a couple actually made it through all 82 questions.”

[David and Lila Sophia laugh.]

LST: I’ve never counted them, Tami! Good for you.

TS: I also did wonder—as I looked at all 82 questions—are people really willing to go through and answer that many questions?

LST: Well, I think one of them was—I can’t say for sure—but there are people who have done, I know that for a fact. How many people have read the book and done them all doesn’t concern me as much as they choose the ones that are engaging for them, because there’s different densities of questions—related to what they can learn about each other physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually. What interests them, what projects they want to undertake.

So, I think it really depends. I’ve definitely worked with couples of all ages—not even just younger ones—who actually really got into it. Whether they did all 82 or not I can’t verify, but they engaged and they found them very, very helpful.

So, that’s really the point of it. A lot of people who perhaps are on more of a spiritual path—living with more intentionality in that way—sometimes get very intimidated about taking a vow. So, they almost get over-weighted in, “What am I supposed to say? How do I craft a vow?”

So, some of those questions are intended for them to start sharing with each other more of that material [so] that out of that they can start to craft something that’s accurate for them as a vow.

TS: Now, the first question you ask—I did get that far—was how important it is for a couple to know why. What’s the purpose of our relationship? I’d be curious to know—for each of you—what you see as the purpose of your relationship?

DT: That changes, and that’s a good thing that it changes. We ask that question—we say, “OK. What are the five most important reasons that you’re in relationship?” and then later on, “What are the five most important reasons that you’d like to be married?” because we build relationship in the early part of the book or help people fill in the gaps of their relationship. Then we talk about weddings specifically.

So, we ask for five. Then we say, “OK. Now add another three.” This is really important for us as a basis for building the vows and also a process we call “And In Whose Name?” So, we ask, “In whose name are we doing this?” If they’re coming to us, it’s because they’re not going to a Catholic church, where the name is pretty clear—or a Jewish synagogue. The names are very clear in the regular religious traditions.

But, there’s so many more people [now] who are not being married within the church tradition. And yet, they’ve thrown out too much. They’ve thrown out this invocation to something that’s bigger than themselves.

So, we have people and we say, “OK. It could be Krishna. It could be Kuan Yin. It could be Jesus. It could be Mary.” So, we actually have them work with this. People typically haven’t thought about, “Well, what is greater than me, which I really admire?”

We also talk about principles—the principle of love, the principle of honesty, the principle of respect—that these are actually independently existing spiritual principles.

LST: But, to bring it back to, “What’s the purpose of our relationship?” it actually relates to what David said because we crafted, in our wedding, that statement calling in what was appropriate for us 20 years ago and naming as best we could at that point of knowing. We hadn’t known each other all that long, so we were crafting a vow to the best of our ability. [This,] to me, equals purpose—what we’re vowing to become as a couple.

I would say over the first eight years, we say our vows many times a week together. We kind of treat it as a sacred imagination that we then found that note and kind of organize our energies around. In the first five to eight years, it went from being two sentences to two large paragraphs that we now repeat.

DT: And we speak it to each other.

LST: Yes. It sort of creates the resonance of our commitment to our work in the world together, to our support of each other’s full journey, to really be good stewards of the land. We’re fortunate enough to be connected to two amazing properties in both Colorado and in Australia that are worked with by many people in the community.

So, we sort of develop our purpose around the content of our life. And yet, there’s also elements of all those questions—maybe not all 82 of them, but certainly the core ones about naming—as David said—the resonance that we feel we hold individually and together, and then what we’re dedicating our life work to. [This] has to do with writing and teaching and sharing and loving the Earth and being good stewards both of specific properties and of the planet herself.

TS: Now, you said something interesting—that the vows that you made during your ceremony actually relate to your sense of the purpose of the relationship. That’s interesting to me, because I can imagine a lot of people approaching this question of, “What are my vows?” and doing that, but not thinking about the purpose of their relationship—thinking more like, “OK, I’m not going to have sex with anybody else and I’m going to treat you in XYZ fashion.” Not necessarily connecting, “Oh, this is about what the purpose is.”

DT: This is your partner—your best friend. The biggest predictor of longevity in marriage is friendship. This is your best teammate—the one with whom you’ll spend more time in a day than anybody else.

So, yes. That’s purpose. The purpose doesn’t need to be a raise or a career change or getting a book written. That’s not necessary. What is necessary is: what are the goals of friendship?

LST: The goals and the vision and the mission statement—it’s a little bit like having a business contract. Most people spend a lot more time navigating the construction of business contracts than they do on their own sense of constructing the contract that will carry their relationship, ideally, through decades if that’s what’s meant to happen.

So, to be able to realize that having a vision statement as well as practical steps and goals for each year—that’s sort of obvious if you step back and look at it. Right? You know?

You’re going into a long-term relationship with this other person, and knowing as much you can up front certainly gives one the sense of what lies in the future. So, to have people ask some difficult questions—and we’ve heard this from enough couples to know that some of the questions actually are very uncomfortable.

In my experience, better to find out some of those things on the front end, and then navigate and notice how you [navigated] because it’s going to be the navigation through some of the challenges that’s going to be as important as the outcome.

DT: Yes.

TS: Now, David, you said something interesting that I’d never heard before—that the best predictor of long-term success in a marriage is friendship. Where does that come from?

DT: Research by John Gottman. He’s famous for being able to come into a room where there was a couple, be with them for five minutes, and then predict whether they will be married in a year’s time or not—with 91 percent accuracy.

He’s amazing. He’s retired now, but for many years he was running a laboratory of relationships funded by the NIMH—which is great. I think that they probably wouldn’t do that anymore. But, it probably has done more for the mental health of the United States than many other things that they study.

So, yes. John Gottman.

TS: Now, in terms of talking about this question of the purpose of our relationship, you and Lila were pretty clear in the book that you don’t see the purpose of your relationship as “happiness.”

LST: Well, we don’t see that as the goal of relationship.

TS: Right. I thought’s interesting, because I think a lot of people might say, “The goal of our relationship is to be happy together.” So, tell me more about why you don’t see that as a goal.

LST: Well, I think that “happy” becomes a very difficult state of mind to which happily-ever-after fairy tales have really fed the mythos that the guy gets the girl and they’re happily ever after. All of us know in reality that it’s—you find each other and then a whole different set of opportunities and challenges appear that are much more the true grit of a life.

I think there’s a kind of maturity—certainly in our Boulder community and communities across the country who are deepening into the understanding that the complexity of the world is such that simply being happy often becomes more of a narcissistic pursuit than it does about being an authentic human alive in very challenging times. To be able to have partnerships that can support one another in the many challenges that relationships will go through—to me, those are qualities that are much more enduring than however people might even define happiness.

I’m not entirely sure what that word means. I notice I don’t use it as much as perhaps I used to when I was younger. It’s sort of lost something for me.

I can equate better to “joyful,” to “meaningful,” to “authentic.”

DT: Compassionate and loving.

LST: Compassionate and loving . . .

DT: That’s what relationships are best at growing: compassionate and loving people. If you want to settle into happiness, let’s say—when I was younger, I had this sort of vision that kept coming up of a little house with a cat and a dog and a wife and two children—a boy and a girl, of course. It had a white picket fence in front. It had roses on the picket fence. There I would be living, and I would live happily for the rest of my days.

But, my soul is a lot more restless than that. It wants to go and learn, and grow. “Happy” sometimes for people is so fleeting because the soul doesn’t care for it except for little respites here and there.

But “loving?” “Compassionate?” “Fully present?” As human beings, this is something that relationship is best suited to help with.

LST: Meanwhile, I would have to say that David and I are laughing a lot more.

DT: Oh yes.

LST: [Laughs.] So, if laughter has a part to play in happiness, then I’m all for that too.

DT: We have a question to each other often. When the vicissitudes of life bear down hard upon us, one will sort of wake up and say to the other, “Are you enjoying yourself?” [Laughs.]

It’s such a wonderful little wake-up, because why not? No matter what’s happening, you can still enjoy the drama and the play of it all—and the growth process.

TS: OK. In these 82 questions that you pose to people to work with for a conscious partnership, you have an extra-credit question at the end. I really liked this extra-credit question. It was to talk to your partner about, “How am I mad?” As in “crazy.” As in “kind of off the rails sometimes.”

So, I’m curious to know about this question.

DT: Well, it does have a little preface there, which you didn’t read. But thanks for setting me up for that.

The preface is that we live in a mad world. We live in a world where a lot of things really don’t make sense. They are often relegated to dinnertime conversation or at the pub or wherever people meet—the water-cooler. [They’re] about, “Did you hear dah-dah-dah?” People would agree that the world is—in many respects—wacko, crazy, violent, un-expectable.

So, the world is mad. So, to meet such a world, how are you mad? How have you developed certain eccentricities, aspects of character, particular hobbies or interests, a particular way of seeing things? How are you also reflecting that in yourself?

TS: That does seem like a valuable thing to let your partner know about before you get married.

[David and Lila Sophia laugh.]

TS: OK. Now, I’m curious how you would address the person out there who takes this posture: “I love my partner, but I just don’t really believe in marriage. I’m just not the marrying type.”

DT: Yes, we see a bit of that. That’s actually a bit on the increase over the last couple of decades—that stance.

So, we say, “Yay!” Yay for relationship. Yay for committed relationship. Yay for your desire to learn from others—from another—really intimately. And, the wedding itself is an opportunity. If you don’t want to take that opportunity, that’s OK.

But, don’t reject it just because it’s part of what you consider a religious tradition.

LST: There’s also some wisdom. If someone’s saying they’re not ready to be married, that’s probably a voice to listen to. We’re still dealing with really high divorce rates.

I personally feel that there’s not a right or wrong [stance] about that approach—that people really do need to evaluate what’s accurate and true for them. I have become a fan of what can happen in a ritual context, and most people that I’ve walked down this road of creating their wedding—in very direct relationship with them—definitely felt something shift when they went through the ceremony.

If a person’s not particularly looking for that or wanting that, then I certainly wouldn’t be trying to talk anybody into getting married if that wasn’t what they were choosing.

TS: And that’s one of my questions. What do you think shifts? I notice that’s a question people often ask people who have gotten married. A couple years later, they say, “So, what changed after you got married? Did anything change?” What have you noticed?

LST: Well, in a ceremonial context, the way that we would be structuring the wedding ceremony and what the book is attempting to do is to sort of drive people to the awareness that there is a holiness to taking a vow and revealing yourself in vulnerability and in strength to another person. By having that witnessed—as when David referenced the one-two-One—by having their communion witnessed in that moment, there’s something about amplifying that that I know I personally experienced and I didn’t experience in my previous weddings. I was married twice before—one very briefly and probably shouldn’t have ever happened.

But, there was something that occurred when David and I got married that was—it [was] almost in the ineffable zone. It was a huge process and lots of people were involved. Lots of things happened that we didn’t plan, because we were doing a lot of theater at the time.

We wanted to be surprised by people. So, we gave them a task and told them how much time they had. They got to do whatever they wanted.

I can still remember all the feelings that came up for me, because I felt like I was living in a reflection of a community I’d always dreamed was possible—elements of the sacred that were of every imaginable color and texture, from laughter and hilarity to deeply, deeply profound.

So, for me, when I walked that path of that ceremony, something was affirmed for what was possible. David and I had been living together. We had been doing fine. But, there was something that said, “OK, and now we’re walking this road together.”

That’s never shifted. It was just such a profound sense [that] we’re now moving into the world together. We do work together more than many people do. It really was our preference. That was what I was clear [on]. I wasn’t going to have another marriage if it wasn’t going to be a working partnership, because that’s just a value that I have of modeling something in the polarities becoming effective because we’re very different.

And yet, our visions and mission statements as individuals are really similar. So, they definitely synergized when they came together. Twenty years later, that’s still true for us.

DT: Yes. Very strong. You see, Tami, what we’re talking about [in the title] is that word, “conscious.” Many weddings are not conscious and perform a certain function within a community. Some are some, and—just the way human beings are, it will be a smaller percentage—seek for consciousness to be aware of all the things that are happening and to make it truly a special day.

You know that phrase: “Oh, it’s your special day.” Well, to really make it special so that seeds are grown there—many seeds—seeds are sown there in the experiences. Many different kinds of seeds in different parts of the ceremony that then are able to grow through the rest of your time—of your whole life.

LST: I for one am really, really happy that so much attention’s coming up nationally around gay marriages. I just think it provides that same opportunity for people to honor and celebrate their love. I’m really delighted that the country is finally having that in a more serious kind of dialogue.

TS: Do you think there are any special considerations for gay and lesbian couples when they get married—in terms of how to relate to the ceremony?

DT: We’re still dealing with one-two-One. The purpose of the ceremony is to stabilize and accentuate that process of moving from two individuals who actually come into the room at separate times. Two of them—but they’re both ones. Then they meet—that becomes the two—and then through the process of the ceremony, we touch into the big One—the communion. And then it’s witnessed by everybody present, who can then be your cheering squad for the rest of your life.

As far as in that sense, the wedding is the same. We’re talking about really deepening relationship because relationship is a task and a great training. It will—when taken seriously—make you into a more loving and wonderful person.

TS: As a lesbian who’s been in a committed relationship for fourteen years now, but I’ve never had a big public wedding—and I notice that part of what has me un-attracted to it are just ways that it feels like the archetypal theater of it, if you will—to use your “theater” word—just doesn’t quite fit. My partner and I get all confused about all the structures that are inherent in the ceremony, from what to wear to one of our fathers giving us away to each other—there’s just so many things that feel so outdated. Then it’s like, well, we would scrap the whole thing and come up with our own ceremony.

Anyway, I’m curious how you talk to couples who are in that kind of situation.

DT: Well, Tami, I’m sure you would come up with your own ceremony.

TS: Yes.

DT: Just in general.

LST: Yes. I think that’s an inquiry for whether there is an intention for that to make a difference or to matter or not. Back to the earlier question, I think that that’s just in the domain of a couple to determine if a marriage or a wedding would create any more significance. Would there be a reason to pursue it or not?

Like I said earlier, I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer to that question. I’ve been at weddings that I’ve thoroughly enjoyed that were not following this particular menu in any way, shape, or form, but that were terrifically fantastic, fun experiences.

So, I think it just depends why one would bring that into a relationship. And fourteen years into it, you may wake up some morning and say, “Well, no. Actually, maybe that does make sense.” But it would come from some really deep place, I would think.

DT: We suggest that people get remarried every 10 years anyway, because their vows and relationship have changed. And in a remarriage or a rededication ceremony, you actually un-vow your previous vows and then vow what’s really true for you now.

But, I wanted to talk about something you said about the father giving away. You know, modern women don’t like that idea—especially when they’re a bit older. But, it has a certain function that can be done in different ways.

One of the main functions for us is that we really feel that the bride and groom—or whatever you call two people in a lesbian marriage—the two people who are being married need to be not worrying about stuff—about details, about anything. One of the functions there is to have someone lead you so that you can actually feel led. That will relax you in a way that will make you more accessible to this kind of being aware of what arises in the moment. That will lead to this sacred moment more effectively.

So, in our view, it doesn’t need to be the father leading the bride. It can be somebody else. We really recommend that it be somebody.

TS: Now, it’s very interesting to me—if you sort of strip away all of the conventions and you get down to what’s actually, really required for a ceremony like this to have deep meaning—and so far, in listening to this conversation, what I’ve heard is the sacred moment, the power of witnesses, the deep quality of intention on the part of both people, and the purpose of the relationship being embedded in the vows. I’m wondering if there are any other what you might call “building blocks.” The form can take lots of different forms, but what do you think the actual, non-negotiable building blocks are, if you will?

DT: Right. So, you’ve talked about some of the aspects in what we call “the core of the wedding.” A core—a very sensitive, delicate core that’s really fizzing and bubbling and really effervescent, and full of life and energy—kind of almost a sense of a feeling of a visitation by something truly sacred—needs a container.

That absolutely is important. Outside weddings are really hard to do, but you can do them if you know that you actually have to surround the space somehow either with people or objects that really create a container—a container of safety and physical presence. That effervescent—it’s like a butterfly flies in and lands on your hand. You have to create some kind of safety around that.

So, that’s another aspect that arises.

LST: I would say that another element would be the weaving of often two different tribes, which might show up as actual family members. Or, if it’s not a family-weighted ceremony, the different collective communities coming together is really something to pay attention to—especially if part of a community is represented by different children from previous marriages or relationships.

So, it gives an opportunity to formally weave a fabric and integrate the participants in the couple’s lives that gives sort of a naming. Right? Like, if a child’s woven into a ceremony, it can often make the difference between the child feeling like they’re really a part of that new couple’s existence.

I think it’s probably as important for parents and other relatives, as well as close friends, to just say, “Oh, OK. The ground changed just a little bit here now that this has been a formally acknowledged coming-together.”

TS: Now, a couple times David, you’ve used this phrase “the core of the wedding.” I’m not sure I know what the core is. I presumed it had something to do with the part about the vows, but what do you mean by that term?

DT: Yes. There’s a central part—what we call the core. It’s both in time and in space. So, it’s in the center of the space that you’re going to be working with. Sometimes, the wedding couple and celebrant step even just two steps when it’s time for the vows and for ring exchange.

I mean, ring—it’s often zoomed through this portion about rings. It’s so powerful. You are taking something and putting it on another. That is probably the only thing they will never take off, night and day, for some period of time. Maybe a long period of time.

That act is not just something to be railroaded through, but to really be felt for the power it has.

So, anyway, vows and rings—that’s kind of the core. All the other stuff about readings, music, and all that stuff—and flowers—that all supports the core around it. And the people and the witnesses.

LST: We got pretty interested in doing weddings out of a ceremonial practice of exploring how an eclectic community like this one in Boulder would start to celebrate other kinds of events—like full moons, solstices, equinoxes, things like that—without giving them a particular spin through one kind of spiritual path or another.

What we found in possibly reinventing the arc of a ceremony—because they’ve been going on for thousands of years—is that there really is an arc. Part of the arc is to gather the energy. Whether you’re doing a sweat lodge or something involving dance or music, you’re kind of wrapping your arms around this event and drawing the energy in a little bit closer as it approaches that moment of the exchange.

Generally, it would be the vows and the rings in that area, where all the attention—the readings; starting with people coming into the facility and being shown to their seats and then read to or having music played or whatever. It’s all part of warming it up, setting a tone, and finding something ideally that’s meaningful to the couple, so it all has their brand and stamp on it.

[This leads] to where it’s almost like the visual of a beam of light [coming] down to the center and just really emphasizes that core—that this is the moment. This is when the other—when the third thing—is really acknowledged and felt. There’s the two people—their individuality—and then that third communion or higher One—its presence is felt.

So, for me, that’s what I try to aim for as a celebrant. That can be really genuinely felt and experienced and co-created by the two people.

TS: Now, I’m curious to know for both of you why participating in conscious weddings is so important and attractive to you. Why do this?

LST: [Laughs.] I love being married to David. I’ve learned so much about everything that I see so many other people struggling with. I’ve actually found it extremely easy to navigate these 20 years with someone as quirky and talented and brilliant and—

DT: Mad.

LST: —mad as he is. I’ve found that it started by just wanting to—we started doing couples’ workshops and trying to find simple ways of creating exercises to sort of help people understand how they could do for themselves something that didn’t have to be so traumatic.

Then it started leading to people asking us to marry them. One thing led to another, and we just found that we had a lot that we wanted to share about our own experience.

DT: Yes. People wanted to get on the same train.

LST: Which obviously they can’t do. It has to be their train. We’re very aware of that. And yet, I really do feel that there are fundamental and quite simple principles in being able to co-create something rather sublime.

DT: For me, also the motivation of seeing so many opportunities missed. I mean, the United Stations—the demographics department of the United Nations—gathers statistics on 182 countries. In every country, marriage happens.

That’s amazing! Think of all the diversity of human cultures and styles and religious beliefs, rich and poor, and all the variety of humanity that is on this Earth. In every country, people marry every year at relatively similar rates of marriage, because there’s something there that really speaks to people.

What I’ve been seeing in our modern American society is that people are missing the opportunity increasingly. It doesn’t have the same meaning, and they just kind of zip through it.

Now, I’ve watched alcohol creep in from half an hour after the wedding to immediately after the wedding—and even now before the wedding. People are taking their drinks into a wedding ceremony. All because the bride and groom want to please their friends.

That’s unfortunate. That’s misguided. That’s missing an opportunity. It’s a huge expense. Even the cheap ones are expensive.

People concentrate on, “Well, I’m sure if the dress is OK and flowers are OK and the wine’s good and the invitations look pretty, that’ll do the trick.” It doesn’t. So, I’ve felt a kind of opportunity there to help others find the opportunity.

TS: And just one final question for you both: Our program’s called Insights at the Edge. Normally, I ask people, “Well, what’s the edge in your own life that you’re currently working with?” Your growth edge, if you will.

But, I would be curious—since our program today is about conscious weddings and conscious partnerships—what you would say the edge is, if you will, in your relationship that you’re working on?

LST: The first thing that occurs to me is that we are about to be doing a lot more travelling, teaching, and engaging in a program—I won’t go into that, but it’s in some ways related to this and certainly supported by this work. It’s going to mean us not being in one of our two amazing communities, between Australia and Boulder. It’s going to mean being on the road a lot—and finding the way to stay balanced and integrated and healthy and connected when some of the stresses of travel are going to be on our plate.

DT: Yes. We’re involved in a program that teaches us a psychology certificate [and] that really emphasizes soul and spirit. [It’s] in complementary, friendly competition with the rise of psychopharmacology—drugs and cognitive theories—and the rejection of soul and spirit.

So, we really feel a sense of mission around this in relation to relationship and weddings, also. That is where soul and spirit are invited and they are able to show up. Everybody will feel it. It’s such a great opportunity.

You know, Insights at the Edge—it’s like an edge is always where the most life is. Between, for example, the sea and the land. Right at the edge there, that’s where the life force is the most powerful—where these two forms are in interaction.

So, an edge is really when any two people are next to each other. There’s an edge between them, which is potent, fizzing. That is accentuated in relationship, in a committed relationship, and via the portal of a wedding.

TS: I’ve been speaking with David Tresemer and Lila Sophia Tresemer. They’re the authors of the new book The Conscious Wedding Handbook: How to Create Authentic Ceremonies That Express Your Love. Thank you both so much. Thank you.

LST: Thank you, Tami. Pleasure to speak with you.

DT: Yes. Yes. Thank you. Yes.

TS: SoundsTrue.com. Many voices, one journey. Thanks for listening.